<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Al Lowe on adventure puzzles&#8230;and text?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://orangeriverstudio.com/monksbrew/2008/02/al-lowe-on-adventure-puzzles-and-text/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://orangeriverstudio.com/monksbrew/2008/02/al-lowe-on-adventure-puzzles-and-text/</link>
	<description>Anecdotes on the adventure of indie game development</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 05 Feb 2012 00:59:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	
	<item>
		<title>By: Rubes</title>
		<link>http://orangeriverstudio.com/monksbrew/2008/02/al-lowe-on-adventure-puzzles-and-text/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Rubes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangeriverstudio.com/monksbrew/?p=5#comment-6</guid>
		<description>I definitely agree with you there. I think IF has done a good job maintaining, for the most part, that type of freedom of interaction. I hope that we are able to replicate that in our project, although there will almost certainly be obstacles.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;m not so sure I&#039;d go so far as to say that &lt;i&gt;nobody&lt;/i&gt; cares if you use a text parser or a context-sensitive drop down menu, however. While I do think a lot of people would agree with that, I do think there are many (myself included) who see some small advantages to parser-based input.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Some of that relates back to one of Al Lowe&#039;s comments, that the parser is like the DOS prompt: &quot;Our games were that way. The cursor would flash, and you&#039;d think, &#039;What am I supposed to do now?&#039;&quot; It&#039;s part of the puzzle. And in many cases, context-sensitive drop downs that provide you with the possible verbs for a given situation remove some of the possibilities.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Of course, on the flip side, poor game construction would just lead to infuriating &quot;guess the verb&quot; problems which have plagued many IF games over the years. But done well, and fairly, the parser can in a small way add to the challenge and open-endedness of these games.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Granted, it&#039;s a small benefit, but one which I think many people can still appreciate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I definitely agree with you there. I think IF has done a good job maintaining, for the most part, that type of freedom of interaction. I hope that we are able to replicate that in our project, although there will almost certainly be obstacles.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not so sure I&#8217;d go so far as to say that <i>nobody</i> cares if you use a text parser or a context-sensitive drop down menu, however. While I do think a lot of people would agree with that, I do think there are many (myself included) who see some small advantages to parser-based input.</p>
<p>Some of that relates back to one of Al Lowe&#8217;s comments, that the parser is like the DOS prompt: &#8220;Our games were that way. The cursor would flash, and you&#8217;d think, &#8216;What am I supposed to do now?&#8217;&#8221; It&#8217;s part of the puzzle. And in many cases, context-sensitive drop downs that provide you with the possible verbs for a given situation remove some of the possibilities.</p>
<p>Of course, on the flip side, poor game construction would just lead to infuriating &#8220;guess the verb&#8221; problems which have plagued many IF games over the years. But done well, and fairly, the parser can in a small way add to the challenge and open-endedness of these games.</p>
<p>Granted, it&#8217;s a small benefit, but one which I think many people can still appreciate.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BigBossSNK</title>
		<link>http://orangeriverstudio.com/monksbrew/2008/02/al-lowe-on-adventure-puzzles-and-text/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>BigBossSNK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangeriverstudio.com/monksbrew/?p=5#comment-5</guid>
		<description>IF is interesting when it allows you to attack a problem through many diverse angles. You have to get someone&#039;s attention. You can speak to them directly. Or get someone else to introduce you. Or set fire to your hair. This kind of freedom of interaction was abandoned when high production values became the norm.&lt;br/&gt;Ultimately, nobody legitimately cares whether you type your next action or you select it from a context sensitive drop down menu. If you recreate the level of freedom you get from IF in a 3D world (regardless of production values), that alone will set your game apart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IF is interesting when it allows you to attack a problem through many diverse angles. You have to get someone&#8217;s attention. You can speak to them directly. Or get someone else to introduce you. Or set fire to your hair. This kind of freedom of interaction was abandoned when high production values became the norm.<br />Ultimately, nobody legitimately cares whether you type your next action or you select it from a context sensitive drop down menu. If you recreate the level of freedom you get from IF in a 3D world (regardless of production values), that alone will set your game apart.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rubes</title>
		<link>http://orangeriverstudio.com/monksbrew/2008/02/al-lowe-on-adventure-puzzles-and-text/comment-page-1/#comment-4</link>
		<dc:creator>Rubes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangeriverstudio.com/monksbrew/?p=5#comment-4</guid>
		<description>Some interesting thoughts there.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Starting at the bottom. I can&#039;t tell for sure, so perhaps I&#039;m off base, but it sounds like what you&#039;re saying is that adventure games got the accessibility part right when the keyboard was abandoned and the user interface simplified, and now all they need to do is get the inspired content part down and sales will follow.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think there is some truth to that, although I might argue that a simplified interface does not always equate to a better interface. More efficient, perhaps, and probably more preferred, but I think the interpretation of better depends on your perspective. From a market perspective, I would say it&#039;s the preferred one; from a niche product perspective, I suppose it&#039;s whatever best achieves your goals.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Related to this is your first comment, that &quot;there&#039;s no reason to go back.&quot; A strong statement, for sure, and I&#039;m not so certain I agree.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think many people may find no reason to go back, and I wouldn&#039;t dispute that there are a majority of adventure gamers that would agree. But I think there are a number of interactive fiction players who might disagree, and perhaps a number of individuals who find the simplified point-and-click interface to be shallow and unsatisfying. That&#039;s something I was planning on touching upon in a future blog. And of course there are still a lot of Linux/Unix users out there who continue to enjoy the command-line interface, although this certainly represents more of a niche group.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I think, perhaps, it would be more applicable to say that there is no &lt;b&gt;economic&lt;/b&gt; reason to go back to text entry -- I think the market has shown that the simplified point-and-click interface is probably the best bet for making a profit. I also suspect the market is probably not large enough to make a useful profit from a text-based-entry game, although I suppose we&#039;ll find out once &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://chicagodave.wordpress.com/&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Textfyre&lt;/a&gt; is off and running.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;That is, in the end, part of the experiment here, though. And I think it should be pointed out (which I will get to eventually, someday) that &lt;i&gt;Vespers&lt;/i&gt; will not be text-entry-heavy. It&#039;s likely that the mouse and single-key commands will account for the majority of player actions, leaving the keyboard for the less common commands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some interesting thoughts there.</p>
<p>Starting at the bottom. I can&#8217;t tell for sure, so perhaps I&#8217;m off base, but it sounds like what you&#8217;re saying is that adventure games got the accessibility part right when the keyboard was abandoned and the user interface simplified, and now all they need to do is get the inspired content part down and sales will follow.</p>
<p>I think there is some truth to that, although I might argue that a simplified interface does not always equate to a better interface. More efficient, perhaps, and probably more preferred, but I think the interpretation of better depends on your perspective. From a market perspective, I would say it&#8217;s the preferred one; from a niche product perspective, I suppose it&#8217;s whatever best achieves your goals.</p>
<p>Related to this is your first comment, that &#8220;there&#8217;s no reason to go back.&#8221; A strong statement, for sure, and I&#8217;m not so certain I agree.</p>
<p>I think many people may find no reason to go back, and I wouldn&#8217;t dispute that there are a majority of adventure gamers that would agree. But I think there are a number of interactive fiction players who might disagree, and perhaps a number of individuals who find the simplified point-and-click interface to be shallow and unsatisfying. That&#8217;s something I was planning on touching upon in a future blog. And of course there are still a lot of Linux/Unix users out there who continue to enjoy the command-line interface, although this certainly represents more of a niche group.</p>
<p>I think, perhaps, it would be more applicable to say that there is no <b>economic</b> reason to go back to text entry &#8212; I think the market has shown that the simplified point-and-click interface is probably the best bet for making a profit. I also suspect the market is probably not large enough to make a useful profit from a text-based-entry game, although I suppose we&#8217;ll find out once <a HREF="http://chicagodave.wordpress.com/" REL="nofollow">Textfyre</a> is off and running.</p>
<p>That is, in the end, part of the experiment here, though. And I think it should be pointed out (which I will get to eventually, someday) that <i>Vespers</i> will not be text-entry-heavy. It&#8217;s likely that the mouse and single-key commands will account for the majority of player actions, leaving the keyboard for the less common commands.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BigBossSNK</title>
		<link>http://orangeriverstudio.com/monksbrew/2008/02/al-lowe-on-adventure-puzzles-and-text/comment-page-1/#comment-3</link>
		<dc:creator>BigBossSNK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 18:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://orangeriverstudio.com/monksbrew/?p=5#comment-3</guid>
		<description>&quot;Perhaps, as the graphical interface became more widespread, people became less tolerant of having to use the keyboard&quot;&lt;br/&gt;True, and there&#039;s no reason to go back. &lt;br/&gt;It might help if you talk to a human language researcher: language becomes simpler over time (frequently used terms are truncated and words that are hard to pronounce marginalized)&lt;br/&gt;The same stands for computer interfaces, the way people &quot;talk to&quot; / interact with the computer.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;&quot;Perhaps the old text interface allowed people to be more comfortable with this type of system interaction.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;Not really. It&#039;s just that you were already selling your game to a small niche, that didn&#039;t mind obtuse irritations as long as it got to play a game. People don&#039;t have to put up with that any more, because the market has accommodated people outside the initial niche.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;“Won’t it be wonderful when 10% of American households have a computer? Think how great sales will be?”&lt;br/&gt;People will always buy your game if you give them what they want. The adventure game isn&#039;t dead, it&#039;s just that people don&#039;t put the effort required to make it fun again (which first of all requires accessibility, then inspired content).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Perhaps, as the graphical interface became more widespread, people became less tolerant of having to use the keyboard&#8221;<br />True, and there&#8217;s no reason to go back. <br />It might help if you talk to a human language researcher: language becomes simpler over time (frequently used terms are truncated and words that are hard to pronounce marginalized)<br />The same stands for computer interfaces, the way people &#8220;talk to&#8221; / interact with the computer.</p>
<p>&#8220;Perhaps the old text interface allowed people to be more comfortable with this type of system interaction.&#8221;<br />Not really. It&#8217;s just that you were already selling your game to a small niche, that didn&#8217;t mind obtuse irritations as long as it got to play a game. People don&#8217;t have to put up with that any more, because the market has accommodated people outside the initial niche.</p>
<p>“Won’t it be wonderful when 10% of American households have a computer? Think how great sales will be?”<br />People will always buy your game if you give them what they want. The adventure game isn&#8217;t dead, it&#8217;s just that people don&#8217;t put the effort required to make it fun again (which first of all requires accessibility, then inspired content).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

